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  #21  
Old 12-08-2016, 04:51 PM
Absinthe Absinthe is offline
 
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Forgot about the clamps underneath, I guess I will look to see what one of my tables looks like topless, perhaps it will need some more cross members, or other buildup.

As for the multiply spaced holes (no pegboard because they need to be 32mm OC), I have a template for doing them with my drill which I am pretty sure will work with a router and the correct collar as well. I was thinking that there could be something more like the LR32 by that "green" company .. Guess you can't have it all. Though that video seemed to suggest there was something of that ilk in the works. But I don't see it. Who knows, his youtube name is "Dik Harrison" perhaps he is here on this forum somewhere too, I might even run into him eventually.
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2016, 11:13 PM
Absinthe Absinthe is offline
 
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So probably the "put a piece of thick insulation foam underneath" will not be a sufficient solution then either...
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  #23  
Old 12-09-2016, 10:52 AM
WatchurFingers WatchurFingers is offline
 
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If your looking for a premade solution, you might have much better luck with Festool then you will with the Dewalt/Makita/Grizzly or any other saw track solution.
If you do a post search, I saw a term going through the site, that apparently has been used quite a bit; erector. That to me, means it is a parts/building blocks, you need to create it, type of thing, rather then a useful, ready to use tool.
So predone solution, EZ isn't it. A useful bit of kit, that might last longer then some homemade jig, while you still have to invent your own stuff, it might be for you.
Reading these forums, show you better not wait for others, anymore then you better wait for the government to fix your life.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2016, 11:52 AM
Absinthe Absinthe is offline
 
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I don't mind inventing stuff on my own, but hate to reinvent something once it has already been done. So I ask to avoid doing such things.

Yes, if a well tested, pre-made solution was the order of the day and money were no object, I would be all over Festool and the LR32, or in actual fact I would likely be using a CNC setup and not even be concerned with most of the issues here. That however, is not the case.

At this point I am just getting antsy waiting on my stuff to get here. Apparently, it is being shipped in more than one shipment, so I have received the "cabinet maker". Without a track to attach it to, it is kind of anticlimactic When the rest gets here I shall play, for now, I will just keep looking for videos and ask questions as I think of them.
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2016, 02:57 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Now you've got me curious. If you are just starting out with EZ, and feel like there are better solutions, why are you?
Regarding the LR32 I've always considered it about the most expensive manual system of drilling shelf pin holes that you could find and doesn't provide any better result than than much less expensive systems.. It's also cumbersome to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe View Post
I don't mind inventing stuff on my own, but hate to reinvent something once it has already been done. So I ask to avoid doing such things.

Yes, if a well tested, pre-made solution was the order of the day and money were no object, I would be all over Festool and the LR32, or in actual fact I would likely be using a CNC setup and not even be concerned with most of the issues here. That however, is not the case.

At this point I am just getting antsy waiting on my stuff to get here. Apparently, it is being shipped in more than one shipment, so I have received the "cabinet maker". Without a track to attach it to, it is kind of anticlimactic When the rest gets here I shall play, for now, I will just keep looking for videos and ask questions as I think of them.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2016, 03:35 PM
Absinthe Absinthe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
Now you've got me curious. If you are just starting out with EZ, and feel like there are better solutions, why are you?
Better solutions always exist. One chooses the best solution that makes sense. I can not afford a proper CNC setup, which is pretty much an optimal solution for the type of cabinet making I wish to pursue.

The next level would be a line borer, vertical panel saw and so forth. Which seems above where I want to be both with cost and physical layout.

I evaluated Festool, and liked it in concept. As a matter of fact it was the first actual track saw concept I ever saw. I am not convinced enough in the cost:benefit of the system, and since no one is picking up the tab for me I looked for something that solves similar problems. Who knew there were other track saw manufacturers, that didn't require a specific saw!!!

Enter EZ Smart. It looks like a serious problem solver. I liked the concept, I liked the fact that it is made in USA, and I liked that I can use my own saw that I already have.

I am hoping that when I get the system that I purchased I have enough to do what I need to do. I assume I will, because I already had pretty much this system, but made from plywood and lacking the adjustable flexibility that EZ Smart provides.

I am a little sad that most of the videos and examples I come across are move geared towards the EZ-1 or one of the Bridged configurations like that, since I didn't feel that was an affordable step to take at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
Regarding the LR32 I've always considered it about the most expensive manual system of drilling shelf pin holes that you could find and doesn't provide any better result than than much less expensive systems.. It's also cumbersome to use.
I have never actually used the LR32. I have used the Kreg shelf pin jig, and loved it so much that I returned it to the store for a refund. I have since replaced it with the Jig-It from Rockler, and though it seems sufficient I would have preferred, and may actually add, the Woodhaven 784 Metric Shelf Pin Jig to the shop just because it will handle doing the whole panel at once instead of having to reposition multiple times. I am concerned that since I want my first hole to be 46.5 mm from the bottom of the panel, and the Jig-it has inconsistent manufacturing tolerances (being more than a 1/2 mm different from the edge of one side to the first hole vs the other side, I have to make my spacing jig for it account for that. On the other hand, I don't think it is expensive to have Ponoko laser cut one from lexan to my specific design, which I may actually do in the coming months. That way I can provide a definite pin location that can let me index from the bottom of the panel without having to rig spacers from wood or other machinations. I don't mind running the drill, I don't enjoy the tweaky setup. I want to remove as much potential for human error as possible, especially when it comes to unnecessary measurements for what will be multiply reproduced "standards".

I mention the LR32 because other than a few DIY indexing jigs I have seen for the drill press, and one precocious teen on YouTube building his own (LR32 knockoff) for his router and a guide rail I haven't seen anything else that seemed to work like that, until I saw Dik Harrison's video which showed an indexing setup and something that suggested it could/would handle mortises. But I never saw any mention of that here.

FWIW, I am not all that comfortable using a router at all. The Jig-It will use a special drill bit or a router with collar and I elect to use the drill bit. Even if there were an indexed system for the router with the EzSmart system I might not choose to use it just because I am not all that comfortable slinging a router around. I do hope to get to the point where I cut my back dado with the router instead of the table saw... Gotta have goals, right?

Last edited by Absinthe; 12-09-2016 at 03:37 PM. Reason: typo
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2016, 05:11 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Once you use it a little and get used to it, you'll find that the router can be one of the most useful tools in your shop. Here is a video showing a home-made shelf pin hole jig being used with a small plunge router to quickly and accurately "drill" shelf pin holes. I would think that you could have a small machine shop make the jig fairly cheaply as it's something that could be quickly and accurately made on an NC machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlmFH7M52ZY

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for in a jig, or how you're laying out your cabinets, but I've used the Kreg for a while and thought that it worked out well for me. I don't however usually drill an unbroken line of holes for the entire height of the cabinet - if, for example, the cabinet is going to have two shelves, I drill a pattern of holes centered at 1/3 and 2/3 of the height, and use two different lengths of plywood to space the jig up from the bottom of the cabinet. I hate to drill unnecessary holes. The first photo show the piece of plywood (I actually used both as the one wasn't wide enough and the cabinet was an odd size so my usual strips wouldn't work) used to space the jig up from the cabinet floor in place, the second shows the pin holes drilled in the lower and upper cabinet spaces. I have a couple of other jigs, one of the things that I like about the Kreg is that I could add a couple of holes if required by just using the locator pin in one of the existing holes to line up the jig,
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2016, 05:30 PM
Absinthe Absinthe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomp913 View Post
Once you use it a little and get used to it, you'll find that the router can be one of the most useful tools in your shop.
<snip>
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for in a jig, or how you're laying out your cabinets,
I am sure that I will get used to it after some use. I am also sure I will acquire the skills to use a router with confidence. (I hope so since I own 3 of them).

My layout is consistent among the panels. All the panels are drilled top to bottom no exceptions starting with a specific offset. This makes for a cabinet that can easily be shelved or drawered or even switched once installed from one to the other or combinations thereof. The same holes that hold hinge panels, or shelf pins or drawer slides can hole any other. That is one of the benefits of the 32mm system. But it does require a high degree of consistency and accuracy.

I will take a peek at the video, and see how he is doing it.
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2016, 10:58 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Again, out of curiosity, are you planning on building cabinets commercially or a home project?
Talking to cabinet shops, in my area anyway, the days being able to compete without having a CNC router are about over.
To make cabinet boxes the most efficient way is with the UEG and Cabinetmaker. I'm thinking there are threads on this forum that show the details but they'll take some dredging up. It is a pretty straightforward process so it shouldn't take long to sort out. You can replace the Cabinetmaker step (crosscut) with an EZ1 type tool but it doesn't speed things up and results in lifting and moving material around more than just using the Cabinetmaker.

To do an LR32 system from scratch is about $1000, if you already have a Festool router it's about $500. A lot different from the $50 jigs you've mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe View Post
Better solutions always exist. One chooses the best solution that makes sense. I can not afford a proper CNC setup, which is pretty much an optimal solution for the type of cabinet making I wish to pursue.

The next level would be a line borer, vertical panel saw and so forth. Which seems above where I want to be both with cost and physical layout.

I evaluated Festool, and liked it in concept. As a matter of fact it was the first actual track saw concept I ever saw. I am not convinced enough in the cost:benefit of the system, and since no one is picking up the tab for me I looked for something that solves similar problems. Who knew there were other track saw manufacturers, that didn't require a specific saw!!!

Enter EZ Smart. It looks like a serious problem solver. I liked the concept, I liked the fact that it is made in USA, and I liked that I can use my own saw that I already have.

I am hoping that when I get the system that I purchased I have enough to do what I need to do. I assume I will, because I already had pretty much this system, but made from plywood and lacking the adjustable flexibility that EZ Smart provides.

I am a little sad that most of the videos and examples I come across are move geared towards the EZ-1 or one of the Bridged configurations like that, since I didn't feel that was an affordable step to take at this point.



I have never actually used the LR32. I have used the Kreg shelf pin jig, and loved it so much that I returned it to the store for a refund. I have since replaced it with the Jig-It from Rockler, and though it seems sufficient I would have preferred, and may actually add, the Woodhaven 784 Metric Shelf Pin Jig to the shop just because it will handle doing the whole panel at once instead of having to reposition multiple times. I am concerned that since I want my first hole to be 46.5 mm from the bottom of the panel, and the Jig-it has inconsistent manufacturing tolerances (being more than a 1/2 mm different from the edge of one side to the first hole vs the other side, I have to make my spacing jig for it account for that. On the other hand, I don't think it is expensive to have Ponoko laser cut one from lexan to my specific design, which I may actually do in the coming months. That way I can provide a definite pin location that can let me index from the bottom of the panel without having to rig spacers from wood or other machinations. I don't mind running the drill, I don't enjoy the tweaky setup. I want to remove as much potential for human error as possible, especially when it comes to unnecessary measurements for what will be multiply reproduced "standards".

I mention the LR32 because other than a few DIY indexing jigs I have seen for the drill press, and one precocious teen on YouTube building his own (LR32 knockoff) for his router and a guide rail I haven't seen anything else that seemed to work like that, until I saw Dik Harrison's video which showed an indexing setup and something that suggested it could/would handle mortises. But I never saw any mention of that here.

FWIW, I am not all that comfortable using a router at all. The Jig-It will use a special drill bit or a router with collar and I elect to use the drill bit. Even if there were an indexed system for the router with the EzSmart system I might not choose to use it just because I am not all that comfortable slinging a router around. I do hope to get to the point where I cut my back dado with the router instead of the table saw... Gotta have goals, right?
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  #30  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:01 AM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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I just started 27 linear feet (upper and base) of cabinets and a 21 sq. ft. island today. They will be Quaker raised panel with full overlay. Carcasses are of 3/4 Birch ( I went with China birch since it won't be seen). Drawers are of 1/2" domestic Birch (because they will be seen). Face frames, door panels, and drawer fronts are white oak.

I used my UEG for cutting sides and bottoms to depth and backs to height. Then I cut widths with my PBB. Today I cut all the pieces for my carcasses, ripped enough oak for one section of face frames, then built and assembled a drawer cabinet, and hung the drawers. Whew!

At this rate I'll be spraying by the end of next week!

I use pocket holes for assembling the face frames, and tongue and groove for the Carcasses. My method is pretty much like Marc Sommerfeld's. Things square up really nice this way.

Why am I telling this?

I work alone and if I had to push all those sheets through the table saw, I'd have gotten about half as far. Why? I'm in the "over 50" crowd and pushing a 5-6 lb. saw through my material makes a hell of a lot more sense than pushing sixteen 66lb. 4'x8' sheets of plywood across a table saw, that's why!

It's still a chore to get sheet goods up on my table but, at least, I'm not trying to keep them square to the fence while lifting them. That's just insane.

And accuracy? Drawer slides only allow for .2" variance but it's no problem with my PBB dialed in. Never gave it a second thought. Set my stop, push my material up to it, lower the bridge and cut.

On YouTube, I see guys showing off their expensive Sawstop or Powermatic TS's, Festool Kapex's, high tech CNC's, and giant in-feed and out feed tables in their 1500sq. ft. shops. Those tools are impressive but I have to wonder. They have twice the space and $20,000 worth of machinery and still can't work any faster or safer or more accurately than I do with my EZSmart tools. I think they're banking on their videos rather than their carpentry. Otherwise, they wouldn't have time to shoot, edit, and publish movies of themselves.

I also use some Kreg jigs. My K3 master system is solid. The shelf pin jig is a steal, just be sure to get both the 1/4" and 5mm bits. And their screws are some of the best you can buy.

I use pocket holes for assembling face frames, and tongue and groove for the carcasses. My method is pretty much like Marc Sommerfeld's. Things square up really well this way.

If you want to make nice stuff and impress people, buy the big heavy expensive brand names. If you want to make nice stuff and turn a profit, there are smarter solutions.
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